The Tangled Branch Discussion Forums

I remember the brutality 
of mother and by this meaning
it was about her loving him, 
about her domestication.

And by this meaning it was about 
her breath percolating through 
the backyard ash trees
and father’s anxiety over 
whether they should have been 
planted in the front yard. 
 

I suspect the issue of where the trees were planted and whatever tension there was over it is one of those childhood memories that stands out as a first recognition of trouble. The telling of it doesn't convey the totality of the situation but as an analogy it suggests the beginning of the "forestation" or growth of a tangled forest of seething emotion a child can't understand.  The "brutality" of who the mother loved is a stunning revelation by the adult.
Fine poem. 

Hi Tim
Much to like and admire here. I do much prefer the image stronger second verse. The two lines concerning meaning are obviously important to you and your vision for the poem but tend to interfere  IMO and s both slow the dynamic and sound utterly unnatural inexecution - perhpas on purpose. They sound almost Biblical. I also think the phrase the brutality of mother sounds very unlike natural language and Mother's brutality is more common. If I can perceive an advantage of the phrase as written it is that mother seems less himan and much less an individual. In total the stanza is very 'explained'
Interesting poem
 

indar wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:59 am

I suspect the issue of where the trees were planted and whatever tension there was over it is one of those childhood memories that stands out as a first recognition of trouble. The telling of it doesn't convey the totality of the situation but as an analogy it suggests the beginning of the "forestation" or growth of a tangled forest of seething emotion a child can't understand.  The "brutality" of who the mother loved is a stunning revelation by the adult.
Fine poem. 

Actually "afforestation" is what I am after here. Fine difference in meaning, methinks, which is why I chose it.  And the whole tree thing is being used metaphorically.  Mom & Dad stayed married for 47 years. I sometimes have no clue how or why, but they loved each other more toward the end then they did during the middle years. I wasn't there at the beginning   

Glad you see some positives, Indar. Thank you.

Dave wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:31 am

Hi Tim
Much to like and admire here. I do much prefer the image stronger second verse. The two lines concerning meaning are obviously important to you and your vision for the poem but tend to interfere  IMO and s both slow the dynamic and sound utterly unnatural inexecution - perhpas on purpose. They sound almost Biblical. I also think the phrase the brutality of mother sounds very unlike natural language and Mother's brutality is more common. If I can perceive an advantage of the phrase as written it is that mother seems less himan and much less an individual. In total the stanza is very 'explained'
Interesting poem
 

Hi, Dave. I like your comments. Thank you. 

Biblical is correct...there is something about a marriage that should be if it's gonna last. Maybe not "Biblical" but a Covenant needs to be acknowledged between participants otherwise (they can stay married but...) they're toast. A love-less marriage is worse than divorce, methinks.  

"the brutality of mother" is what was acted upon/toward her. So to use "Mother's brutality" would change the meaning/intention. A woman in an abusive relationship does seem less human/less an individual...I would agree w/that whole-heartedly.  Dad didn't "beat" mom, but they had their moments. And yet, she stuck w/him.  I chose to put the brutality on her shoulders for not allowing it exactly, but accepting it and moving forward w/him.  Not many women would have.  My parents were from a different era. Mom came from a broken family; dad didn't really have a family, raised by neighbors. Neither one of them had role models...but none of my siblings are divorced either so they must have done something right  

This is a complicated poem for me. Based on comments I'm seeing, I'm on the right track and that makes me very happy.  

Hi Tim
Thanks for the explanation. can't comment on what is a good marriage, never having been there. However, have experienced parents in an abusive but loving realtionship. One issue still irritates me, which is that from my understanding the second line to be properly understaood would have to be 'the brutalisation of mother'.
Dave
 

Dave wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:21 am

Hi Tim
Thanks for the explanation. can't comment on what is a good marriage, never having been there. However, have experienced parents in an abusive but loving realtionship. One issue still irritates me, which is that from my understanding the second line to be properly understaood would have to be 'the brutalisation of mother'.
Dave
 

I didn't comment on what makes a "good" marriage either, Dave. I never used that word.   

As far as the construction of "...the brutality of mother..." it is staying so I guess you'll have to get used to the irritant and remain "properly" misunderstood  ;)
 

Hi Tim you did not use the word good no, but i did that's true. I often wonder if my parents marriage was a 'good' one.
The words of the poem are your poem and mean to you what they mean to you even they dont mean that to me. I am just a reader.

Dave wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:26 am

Hi Tim you did not use the word good no, but i did that's true. I often wonder if my parents marriage was a 'good' one.
The words of the poem are your poem and mean to you what they mean to you even they dont mean that to me. I am just a reader.

W/o readers, what good is poetry, Dave?  We'd all end up like Emily and live in a shaded house waiting to be read until we die.

I had no control over whether my parents had a "good" marriage or not. Children are more like outside observers. 

Thanks for your comments. Makes me think.

Poetry without readers is just that. What interests me more is whether words have meaning and who gets to choose